The Second Comforter

A question was asked of me, “How do we understand the difference between Baptism of Fire, Holy Ghost, and the Second Comforter?” The Lord gave me the following:

A man pulled into a carwash, his car filthy with mud and dirt. He came out the other end clean. (Baptism of Fire)

He then drove straight to another station, his car given a fresh coat of white paint, sparkling and new. (Gift of the Holy Ghost and Born Again)

As he pulled out he wondered, “What should I do now?” He heard a tap on the window. He opened the passenger door and a man sat down next to him. The Lord said, “Shall we go for a drive? Lots of things I would like to show you.” (Second Comforter)

The words “Second Comforter” do not exist in scripture; however, it has become a term people use to describe their experience with the Lord. There are many today that declare they received their Second Comforter, and I rejoice in their faith. I do not give them my endorsement or opinion of whether it is, or isn’t; because it doesn’t matter. The Second Comforter is just the beginning. It is the first day of college, you still know nothing. It is wonderful and life changing, but is not a place of status.

I remember being in awe of anyone who claimed such an experience. Today I think, “Great, now what will you do?” For many who have been blessed with such things it is important to know that there are different kinds of Second Comforter experiences, and you should not feel that you have “arrived” until you have received a fullness as described in the previous section “Calling and Election Made Sure.”

There are Four types of Second Comforter experiences

Each experience with the Lord is sacred and important to our preparation for receiving the Calling and Election Made Sure. Each of these four types may occur during your life if you exercise faith and seek the Lord. Some never go as far as the first, or skip to the third or fourth type. Others, because of pride, feel that they have achieved a superior experience and discredit or discount anything that varies from their experience. We must encourage and inspire our brothers and sisters to have faith and follow the pattern of the Everlasting Covenant, to receive all that the Father desires to give us.

Type One: To see dimly

This is where the spiritual eyes are not open enough to see clearly. The ears may be open, but usually only an outline, or blurring form is visible. The experience is profound, and often the person is left desiring more.

Type Two: See and converse with the Lord, but more dreamlike. Not tangible; only to hear and to see.

Such an experience is very fluid, but has the feeling of a dream or vision. You are aware of your physical body during the experience and at times distracted by your body or random thoughts. Requires much focus to stay tuned in.

Type Three: An experience with the Lord in the physical body. 

The Lord is seen with the physical eyes, but much is often withheld from the vision of the participant until they are properly prepared.

Type Four: A full encounter in the Heavenly Realm; to experience with hyper-realism; all senses involved.

This is a complete separation from your body, with a portion of your spirit remaining with your physical body. The spirit is completely unrestricted and the senses are so engaged that everything seems to happen quickly and with vivid detail; rapid communication, and introductions to various angelic hosts.

It is common for most who are on this journey to first experience a Type One experience before the Lord reveals more. This is not a sign of less worthiness, but that the spiritual eyes are not yet fully open. The Lord will often bless those struggling to see by giving sacred dreams, and then, as they grow in faith to see Him in vision.[1] Anyone who discounts such spiritual manifestations and declares that the only legitimate Second Comforter experience is with the physical eyes and ears is lacking faith. The Lord will work with those lacking faith according to their righteousness, but they will lose sacred opportunities to receive the ministering of angels and to associate with the Church of the Firstborn. They will not ascend to the Throne to see and witness the glory of God in this life, because they have set up stakes. They may preach to you their philosophies; but pray to know for yourself, and ask the Lord what is truth. You must have your own witness. Be believing.

There are Four categories of Second Comforter experiences:

When you have your experience with the Lord it may follow a certain pattern. Each are individual and special, but I wanted to describe what myself and others have seen so you may understand how it may occur.

  1. Dream
  2. Vision
  3. Physical Encounter
  4. Ascension

The Dream

Dreaming is a way for our spirits to experience things that we are incapable of, because our spiritual eyes are not yet open. It is a tender mercy of the Lord for us to confront our fears, to receive messages, and to learn from both the angelic ministers and the Adversary. It is required that there is an opposition in all things; therefore, do not think that the Adversary won’t also enter your dream state.

Those who have had Second Comforter experiences in dreams often have a dulled version of the full experience. They may not see the Lord’s face, or they may. Many who experience the Lord in dreams see him in a symbolic fashion. Comparing the description of the Savior amongst those who have seen Him in dreams are widely varied. This is not to discount them, as we often experience dreams in a symbolic communicative way. This means the Lord allows our sacred imagination to lucidly create what it needs.

Some dreams are far more vivid and powerful than others. The kinds that have a lasting impression are usually meant to stir our souls and come directly from the Lord, or the Adversary. If you can’t remember your dream it was only meant for your spirit; if you remember vividly and it stays with you, it was meant for you now. Dreams can be both a Type One or Type Two experience.

If you have a dream that involves the Savior communicating with you, ask yourself the following:

  1. Was He gentle and loving?
  2. Did I feel any darkness from Him, or only light?
  3. Was the message of the dream in harmony with what I know of the Lord? Do I need to revisit this to know for certain it was from Him?

If the dream awoke you to a sense of absolute love and desire to be with Jesus, it was likely from Him. I would pray and seek further knowledge at that point. If it left you feeling troubled with how the Lord treated you, it is likely darkness. This doesn’t mean that you won’t feel uncomfortable at times with the Lord in the dream. The power and majesty of the Lord’s presence, if He presents Himself to you this way, is very uncomfortable; but it passes quickly and you are left wrapped in His love and acceptance. His gentle demeanor is such a paradox to His absolute power.

Your dreams may find you with the Lord is particular places: walking through a landscape, a familiar place from your past, in a house with a symbolic meaning, in your current location, or even in Heaven. Angels may also come in a like manner. Be open to these experiences; they may be teaching you something to prepare you for more tangible experiences.

The Vision

In the previous chapters where I described the process of receiving visions I talked about how this may occur. It is important to understand that although we can lay a visionary platform to invite the Lord, we cannot force such things to manifest. He comes when He chooses to come. I have learned to always ask for permission to enter His presence. There are times where He makes an unannounced visit, usually within the pillar of fire.

For me, this is always a vision Type Two experience. I am fully aware of my physical body and surroundings, but the Lord is there in His full glory within the pillar of light. Usually He is accompanied by a heavenly host. For someone whose eyes are beginning to open they would experience the Lord as a Type One experience and struggle to see Him, yet know He is there. This is what the Brother of Jared described as “the cloud.”

The vision experience may occur in the comfort of your own home and its surroundings, or in the outdoors. You may have people around you or be alone. You may be in a sacred place for you like a church, temple, or other building; or up in the mountains at your altar. He will come to you anywhere that the space is made holy. You are what makes the space holy.

You may also have a waking vision that is much like entering a dream; where you are taken somewhere and experience either a real-time communication, or a symbolic experience. “Real time” means that it is like having a conversation in the moment. A symbolic experience is where things are not realistic, somewhat strange; but seem to teach you something important.

It is easy for one without faith to dismiss a visionary Second Comforter experience as simply a whim of the imagination. If it comes and goes like a fleeting thought, it could be the prelude to a revelation, or setting the stage for a future event. If the vision rocks your world don’t discard it; you have received something from the Lord.

Once someone has experienced the Lord in vision, either as a Type One or Type Two,  they should not think that was the finale of their experience with the Lord. You must continue to press forward until you have your calling and election made sure. Do not become comfortable and allow the familiar spirit to tell you that you should not seek more or that it is inappropriate to ask for more. The Lord desires you to come feeling after Him, to know Him on an intimate level; which means to walk with Him in His Heavenly abode. You must continue to seek Him in His fullness.[2]

The Physical Encounter

The Lord loves to interact with His servants. If there is a moment in our lives where His coming to us would create an epic moment – He will do it. The process is effortless for Him; He simply condescends a portion of His Spirit and houses it in a physical body that veils His glory.[3] If He were to come in His full glory it would melt the earth. Usually, when He comes here it is within the pillar of fire; which is like a portal that doesn’t interfere with this lower glory.

The purpose for a physical Second Comforter experience may be varied. Often such a thing would transpire when an important event was occurring that involved many people. When there is a need for a body of people to have a witness of Him, yet they are not capable of exercising the faith necessary to ascend to the Heavenly Realm.

For example, after the Lord’s resurrection He was seen by many in and around Jerusalem. The two who walked with Him on the Road to Emmaus, the Apostles at their house, the women at the tomb. There were many more whose stories were not recorded, and also many who conversed with Him and never knew it until after they had died.

When the Lord came to the people of Bountiful He was resurrected in a fashion that would allow Him to withhold His glory. Each of the approximately 2500 people were able to feel the marks and have a personal Second Comforter experience with Him. Some whose faith was sufficient were able to ascend and have a fullness in the Heavenly Realm.

In the future, many who are called and chosen to be servants to gather the House of Israel will gather as groups and receive their Second Comforter in a similar fashion. If you have not raised your faith enough to enter the Heavenly Realm, the Lord will visit you in this realm when the timing is right; usually amongst a group or coinciding with an event.

The Ascension

Very rarely does one receive a Second Comforter Ascension without first having received dreams and visions with the Lord. He prepares you for the calling and election made sure. It is good that the timing of this event be right; because once you have the fullness your life will never be the same. Typically, it is the beginning of a major shift in your current mission and focus.

Each person will experience things differently. Much of what will occur for you will depend upon the Calling that you were foreordained to do before you entered mortality. If you did not make such an oath and covenant of priesthood before the world was created, but you are a recipient of the Everlasting Covenant, you may have a Second Comforter experience; but not an ascension until later.

In Zion, there will be those who have arisen to their Third Estate who will welcome those who come there. They will see the Lord when He walks among the people. They will be taken up when He comes in His glory. Those who are the Fourth Estate will be the ones to bring the Elect, the new Saints to Zion from throughout the world. They will exercise the sealing power and be the Saviors on Mount Zion. In your heart, the Lord will tell you who you are and what you will do first; then if you receive the calling and election made sure; you will know a fullness of what your oath and covenant entails. Do not be covetous of another; as all will eventually experience each estate in the process of knowing the Lord.

For those who receive an ascension it will change your perceptions of everything in this world.

For me, the ascension began as a vision, but then quickly accelerated into something more intense. My awareness of my body left me, and I was taken to the room above the earth. Here I spoke with a particular angel for the first time. Then I passed through a gate of light and entered a room with a blast of light beyond anything I had experienced before. I wanted to flee and escape, but was given a garment of light as quickly as I entered; which calmed my soul and gave me confidence. I was escorted for a short distance and invited to come to Him.

All things blossomed from this beginning introduction. I had seen Him before, had heard His voice and spoke with Him at times; but nothing as tangible and vivid an experience as this was to me. Each consecutive visit became more fluid and my confidence in the Lord’s presence increased. I now know what to expect and am always amazed at the experience.

I still have type One, Two, and Four Experiences. I have visions where I see Him in the pillar of light. These are all Second Comforter type events. There are times when I experience an ascension, but it vacillates between a Type Two and Four, as my body struggles. It helps to be fasting when I approach the Lord.

Type Three, physical-only encounters have only happened with me with translated beings. But, although it would be interesting to interact with the Lord this way, a Type Four experience is much more vivid to me. I can see in the Heavenly Realm far better there than I do with my glasses on here! I have experienced what the Lord is like in the physical body when I saw Him as the man of Galilee, and also how He appeared in His physical resurrected form to the people in Jerusalem and Bountiful. He has much freedom and control of how He introduces Himself.[4]

The Doctrine of the Second Comforter

The whole idea of a Second Comforter is based upon our desire as an LDS people to define a visit from the Lord while in the flesh. There are two distinct examples of the doctrine taught; one by Joseph Smith, and the other by Peter. The scriptures are filled with examples of people and prophets communicating with God; each of which is a type of Second Comforter.[5] The true question to ask yourself is not whether you have had your Second Comforter; but how well do you know the Lord?

Joseph Smith was recorded saying the following:

In John 14:16 and 18, we read, “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever. . . . I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Now what is this other Comforter? It is no more nor less than the Lord Jesus Christ Himself; and this is the sum and substance of the whole matter; that when any man obtains this last Comforter, he will have the personage of Jesus Christ to attend him, or appear unto him from time to time, and even He will manifest the Father unto him.”[6]

Joseph’s full Second Comforter experience was never recorded. He did see the Lord’s face and the Father in the Sacred Grove when his mortal journey began, but it was within the pillar of light and he later had to be taught and ascend to learn more of his mission.[7] Joseph’s visions with Oliver Cowdrey[8] and Sidney Rigdon[9] were mild compared to what he received in private. In Doctrine and Covenants, the prophet made these revelations known:

Verily, thus saith the Lord: It shall come to pass that every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my face and know that I am;” D&C 93:1

For no man has seen God at any time in the flesh, except quickened by the Spirit of God. Neither can any natural man abide the presence of God, neither after the carnal mind. Ye are not able to abide the presence of God now, neither the ministering of angels; wherefore, continue in patience until ye are perfected.” D&C 67:11-13

And without the ordinances thereof, and the authority of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh; For without this no man can see the face of God, even the Father, and live. Now this Moses plainly taught to the children of Israel in the wilderness, and sought diligently to sanctify his people that they might behold the face of God; D&C 84:21-23

Therefore, sanctify yourselves that your minds become single to God, and the days will come that you shall see him; for he will unveil his face unto you, and it shall be in his own time, and in his own way, and according to his own will.” D&C 88:68

The apostle Peter also taught the doctrine of the Second Comforter. He didn’t use that term, but simply referred to it as having your calling and election made sure.

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: [You have received the Gift of the Holy Ghost.]

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. [He now lists the virtues of godliness.]

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. [After receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost if you lose the Spirit you will be blind.]

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: [Receive the Second Comforter]

11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. [Christ Himself will minister to you.]

12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth. [This principle was taught much to the early saints.]

13 Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;

14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

15 Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance. [He prophesies his death, and asks that they not forget these teachings.]

16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. [A true witness, not stories.]

17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. [Peter’s first Second Comforter experience on the Mt. of Transfiguration.]

19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; [Calling and Election Made Sure] whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: (2 Peter 1:1-19)

Why do people have such different experiences? It really comes down to two factors; first, your level of faith. Are you willing to believe what the Lord has given you; to exercise the gifts of the Spirit and to receive line upon line, precept upon precept? Second, how much priesthood do you need to accomplish the mission you covenanted to perform in this life? The Higher priesthood is not a privilege that can be bought and purchased, or given based on association. It must be sanctioned and sanctified by the Lord only.

Those who receive a fullness of the Lord, the calling and election made sure, never wear it as a sign of status. They do not become angry or mock others who claim such things. They rejoice in anyone who testifies a relationship with their Lord. They encourage all to receive the same blessings.

Is there a correct and proper way to receive the Lord? As I stated earlier, it is different for each individual; but ultimately is based upon your faith. Your willingness to seek revelation and to act upon it. We must follow the steps of progression in mortality and do all that the Lord asks us to do after this life.

I received this question from someone: “How should we act if someone is false in their claim of having the Second Comforter?”

I personally always consider someone’s witness as true when I first hear it. It isn’t fair for me to assume anyone is false based on rumors or assumptions of others. Also, those who receive Second Comforter experiences sometimes assume things that may not be true because the details are unfamiliar to them.

It is not uncommon for someone to believe they had the full gift of the Holy Ghost, when they had received only a baptism of fire. Some have thought they had their calling and election made sure, when it was a Second Comforter encounter with the Lord without the fullness. It is common to try and explain experiences based upon our knowledge at the time. The definitions we use can come from years of study from church manuals and theologians that don’t always fully understand the doctrine.

When I start to judge for myself that someone’s experience is false, it is when I sense they are exercising unrighteous dominion. If they begin to seek the acceptance of others to gratify their pride, speak contentiously about other’s experiences to bolster their own, or claim superior authority to everyone; then I know I should be cautious. We are all equal in the sight of God. I have been guilty of judging too quickly myself.[10] Despite how I feel, I never share my approval or disapproval in public. We must discern and judge for ourselves according to personal revelation from the Lord.

I know there are many of you reading this who are hungry to have your experience with the Lord. “What more can I do?” is often the words of one who feels they must be lacking in some area of their life or the Lord would have already revealed Himself to them. Before I received my Second Comforter the Lord revealed to me the following revelation:

“Last night I went to the Lord in solemn prayer asking Him what more I must do to finally come to Him and receive my Second Comforter. I wanted to know my standing with God and to do His will, to be His servant. The answer I received as I heard His voice was a blessing to me. He said, “You will receive this Gift at the moment before your mission begins. Until then, you will continue to fulfill the other tasks you have been given. All things will come at their appointed times.”

It wasn’t that I wasn’t worthy yet, it was that the experience of receiving my Second Comforter would come with an assignment that would take a course that required perfect timing for what the Lord has planned. Timing is EVERYTHING with the Lord. Our Second Comforter is not an achievement that God simply bestows upon us when we reach a summit of righteousness, but occurs, if we are worthy, at the proper time appointed so that we can perform the mission for which we were called in the Grand Council.

I was reminded of the Savior Himself, who patiently waited until the Father said it was time to begin His ministry. He went to his cousin John, was baptized and received the Holy Ghost, then went into the wilderness to receive detailed instructions. It was here that the Father comforted Him and sent Yeshua on His mission that would last 3.5 years. There are many at this time seeking their Second Comforter. Yes, you should continue to seek, but know that it will happen precisely when the Lord needs you to receive Him. For now, until the time comes, it is your job is to be faithful, purify your heart, and stand in Holy places.

[1] “Another part I was not aware of is that only those who are called and chosen, who have a mission to begin, preordained in this life are caught up to be the Lord and have their calling and election made sure. This means that they are taught specifically how to do their missions. This is why it is not a common event. There is a purpose and it is tied closely to fulfilling a mission. To those who have received their Holy Ghost they are prepared to see the face of the Lord. This can occur either in a preparatory vision, dream, or In the Spirit. When Zion is established he will come and present himself to the righteous, those who have been made clean, but it will be in a resurrected physical body that those here on earth can withstand.” (Personal Journal)

[2] 2 Nephi 31:19-20

[3] This is new information for most. One type of resurrection is when a being of high glory condescends to a lower glory and resurrects their spirit in a temporary tabernacle of flesh. The body in this case is more like a translated being, not subject to the same physical laws of the temporal body.

[4] “Another resurrection is to transform a glorified body to take on flesh in a lower sphere. By this, one can withhold their glory. This can be done using a new body as Christ did while leaving the marks, or as a translated body leaving the marks of aging. Manipulation of the bodily vessel from one glory to the next is a common practice of the Lord.

It requires higher priesthood to perform such a resurrection. (Patriarchal) In the next life it will be evident that the act of resurrection is one of the most common events in the realm of the Spirit.” (Personal Journal)

[5] Moses 7:3-4, Abraham 3:11, Ether 12:39, Genesis 32:30, Deuteronomy 5:4, Ezekiel 20:35-36

[6] Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 150-151 This particular scripture in John14:16,18 refers to both comforters. Verse 14 is the gift of the Holy Ghost, and then the Lord refers to Himself in verse 18. This quote can be confusing the way it was written.

[7] There is no scriptural reference I am aware of for this. But I know from what I was taught in the Heavenly Realm.

[8] D&C 110

[9] D&C 76

[10] On a couple of occasions, I have asked the Lord face to face about people specifically, sometimes to be surprised by the answer. We must be very careful not to judge without the Lord’s revelation to us.

21 Responses to The Second Comforter

  1. Nate says:

    Is there a higher level Second Comforter experience than ascending to the Heavenly Realm? Like for example, the three nephites having their bodies taken up….[There is a third and fourth comforter for lack of a better word. I wrote about this in A Witness of the Heavely Realm. Translation requires a deep ascension. PR]

    My second question is, what would feel more real…. Ascension or the experience Joseph Smith had where the Father and Savior changed came to Joseph and chaneed His body with a baptism of fire so that they could commune with Him. [They are the same. PR]

    Liked by 3 people

  2. Nate says:

    What exactly is transfiguration?… is transfiguration seen in the Spirit as much as ascending to the throne is, a vision?

    In other words if an outsider saw from transfiguration(like with Josephs first vision or the Nephites), would it appear as if people were talking to themselves? Would Christ appear visible or invisible?

    [To be transfigured is to have your body changed so that you can withstand the presence of God. This will only occur when you are standing in the baptism of fire. This is the pillar of light that descended upon Joseph Smith in the grove, Moses on the mountain, and the people of Bountiful when Christ came. Translation is a different kind of transfiguration where the body itself is changed allowing it to mingle amongst the living and also abide the presence of God. There are even other types of transfiguration, but usually it is the kind I mentioned regarding the pillar of light. Having said this, the fullness of the Calling and Election Made Sure, or Second Comforter is beyond standing in this pillar of light. It is an ascension to the Throne of God and beholding His creations as you are taught.

    After Moses was surrounded by the pillar of light and transfigured to endure the presence of God he was left to himself and Satan came to him. Moses said, “Who art thou? For behold, I am a son of God, in the similitude of his Only Begotten; and where is thy glory, that I should worship thee? For behold, I could not look upon God, except his glory should come upon me, and I were transfigured before him. But I can look upon thee in the natural man. Is it not so, surely?” Moses 1:13-14 We cannot look upon God in His glory with our natural eyes. PR]


  3. Nate says:

    Did the Lord reveal to you the types of Second Comforter experiences here in this order? [This is how I was given the information. PR]


  4. Nate says:

    Are there greater types than an ascension that the Lords servants should be seeking? [I would only seek the baptism of fire and Gift of the Holy Ghost. After that I would seek to strengthen my relationship with Christ, which comes in measures until the perfect day. After that the Holy Spirit by revelation will lead you to where you need to go. PR]


  5. Nate says:

    Thank you. I have a couple more questions regarding this if that’s okay.

    If an outsider were to see Joseph Smiths first encounter in the grove, would they see anything? Christ in His glory, a blinding light, etc? [They would not have seen anything. When the Savior came to those in Bountiful He appeared in a physical form, yet you would have not seen all the other things like the angels and fire if you had not had your eyes open. This experience was more like the Road to Emmaus after the Resurrection. PR]

    What about those who would see the Savior appear to the Nephites at Bountiful?


  6. Nate says:

    Each time someone ascends to the Throne in spirit, they are transfigured with the baptism if fire/portal of light? [Yes. PR]


  7. Nate says:

    When you are in the pillar if light/ascension, can the adversary influence you? [No, he cannot go there. No unclean thing can be in the presence of God. PR]

    During an ascension, can your imagination get in the way or input itself on what you see?… to make something appear which isnt really there in the heavenly realm? Like a deception? [I have not experienced that. Any deception occurs before the pillar of light is manifest. After experiencing the real thing it is easier to discern a deception in a vision. The part where Satan can most likely deceive is hearing what we think may be the Spirit when it is in fact a familiar spirit. For this reason it is important to check with the Lord. Other confusions often occur when trying to make sense of a visionary experience. We usually translate something according to our own understanding. I am constantly checking with the Lord to see if I understood correctly. Just recently I was told I got something wrong, but that it was nothing I had written about, so that was good; but it still stressed me out. The Lord didn’t tell me what it was, only to go and study a certain topic and it would be revealed. Learning how to deal with these things is not without its difficulty. PR]

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  8. Nate says:

    “After experiencing the real thing it is easier to discern a deception in a vision.”

    By real thing do you mean an ascension? [Yes. PR]

    So just to clarify for people, exercising Sacred Imagination facilitstes a vision. But a vision is not an ascenion… Imagination can get in the way of a vision but not an ascenion. Ascenion is when your spirit going into heaven, and your imagination cannot get in the way of that… Is that all correct? [Imagination is like when you write a story and see the imagery in your mind. An ascension that involves sacred imagination is when you open a book and are taken on a journey that you have no control, because the Lord is the author. PR]

    What role does sacred imagination play with having an ascenion?

    Liked by 1 person

  9. Nate says:

    “An ascension that involves sacred imagination is when you open a book and are taken on a journey that you have no control, because the Lord is the author. PR]

    … you mean in an ascenion the Lord shows you visions? It’s not your imaginings? [No, it is not. The imagination is the springboard for faith. When our thoughts are garnished with virtue and holiness we exercise faith through centering our thoughts upon virtue. From here the Lord will take you to where you need to go. If your ascension was all imagination it would be false. PR]

    It sounds like you only use sacred imagination to ascend in the first place, but once you’re in His presence, He shows you in vision… if someone had an undeveloped imagination in the Lords presence, could they still see what He shows them?

    Liked by 1 person

  10. tekoraa says:

    Is the baptism of fire and Holy Ghost resurrection of your spirit to terrestrial glory? What estate does someone become resurrected to celestial? D&C 76 seems a little confusing with who are of terrestrial. The celestial glory is for those who receive the second comforter and have their calling and election made sure (receive testimony of Christ).
    verse 72 Behold, these are they who died awithout law; [Those who receive the Holy Ghost gift will inherit Eternal Life, but the process of Exaltation takes a long time as they work through the Everlasting Covenant. Section 76 gives a very simplistic view of the glories of heaven. PR]

    in one of your previous BoM posts you mentioned: “All small children and those who die without the Gospel as saved from hell and damnation, but they must still learn of Christ and receive baptism and the Holy Ghost. Upon returning to the world of spirits these people are given an opportunity to hear the Gospel and make plans to move forward. Rarely, do those outside the House of Israel choose to do so, but it does occur.”

    Do you have any insight as to what D&C 76:72 means in relation to your previous quote? Much thanks [Those who choose Christ after death who died without the law are saved in Terrestrial glory and will continue their progression from that point. The terrestrial glory is the glory is the Second Heaven where abide the angels of God. As they serve in that capacity they inherit Eternal Life and conitinue toward exaltation if they are willing to do so. I am not permitted to explain in detail the EC as it relates to this, but the Spirit can guide someone to see truth. PR]

    Liked by 1 person

  11. Sarah Martin says:

    Thank you for this post; it has been very helpful.
    I have another question: What is the difference (if there is one) between the “heavenly gift” spoken of in Ether 12:6-9 and the Second Comforter? As far as I could understand from that passage, the heavenly gift seemed to be tied to seeing the Savior. [Yes, that is correct. PR]


  12. Nate says:

    John 14:6
    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    But it was the Father who introduced Christ to Joseph Smith in his first vision. Why? [It was not an ascension, but within the pillar of fire. In such a vision anything can happen. It is important to note that The Father bore witness of His Son, just as He did to John the Baptist at the Lord’s baptism, and to the people of Bountiful. Never since the days of Adam do we have record of such a visitation. PR]

    Liked by 2 people

  13. Nate says:

    Why couldn’t Mary touch or hold Him in John 20:17?

    Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. [A better translation would have been “You must let me go, for I need to go to my Father…” When Mary saw that it was her husband they embraced. This is not the standard narrative, but it was what I saw. Pray for your own witness. PR]

    Liked by 3 people

  14. Nate says:

    When do people experience what the disciples did after Christ’s resurrection, where He appeared with a physical body? Will we experience this in Zion? [This occurs when a group of people need to witness Christ the Lord together and they faith is not yet to where they can ascend. PR]


  15. Nate says:

    We think of Christ’s return on the third day as the “resurrection”, but the first resurrection when people are risen from their graves (spiritual death) is when we receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost, correct? So what kind of physical body did Christ manifest to His disciples in Israel?… was this the same as a translated body? [Christ was considered the “first fruits” of the resurrection. His Resurrection was the kind that witnesses His overcoming of death and the coming forth of all the pure in heart. I talk more about this kind of resurrection in the following link: PR]


  16. Nate says:

    Can our physical bodies be taken up for an ascension to the Throne of God? Some call this a transfiguration. [Not the physical body, it would evaporate. A transfiguration is the ascension of the spirit body after it has been made clean. PR]


  17. Nate says:

    Does Jesus Christ’s throne reside in the Third Heaven?…. and the Father is a heaven above Christ?

    How many heavens are there that we can ascend to? Some believe there are seven. [There is not limit, and there are many Heavens that ascend. Its good to focus on the third. PR]

    Liked by 1 person

  18. truthseeker1820 says:

    How would you define what happens to our spirits and bodies when we dream? I’ve heard that certain chemicals are released and the brain essentially enters a lower frequency when dreaming. I’ve wondered if that’s because our spirit is out “somewhere else” during sleep, thus the brain can be less active and it focuses on essential bodily functions. I believe the brain is more like an “antenna” than a “computer”, contrary to the modern conception of how the brain works.

    Also, is a dream less “real” than a type 2 or type 4? Is it somehow fake? I don’t think it is, but sometimes we do things in dreams that seem totally ridiculous or unrealistic, so it makes me wonder exactly what is going on with our spirit. How could our spirit not be in control of what seems to be a spiritual experience? At other times, dreams are incredibly powerful or feel very real. Why is there a disparity between the kinds of dreams we have? [Dreams are when our spirit is freed to explore what we are to afraid or lacking imagination to see. Because we are attached to the physical body, we usually experience things very clumsily in our dreams, like a child learning to walk and talk for the first time. Sometimes we are assisted by the Lord and given particularly lucid meaningful dreams, and sometimes the adversary will do the same. In both cases we expand our ability to imagine and explore the boundaries of our faith. The pineal gland is a primary spot in the brain where this function is amplified. Once our spiritual senses are fully awakened it is not necessary to be in a dream state to experience the unseen realm, we begin to have real time experience rather than a symbolic or random form of dreaming. We also have more control as we come to understand that all things are made possible by our faith. PR]

    Liked by 1 person

  19. John Crane says:

    I would just like to add to PR’s response to truthseeker1820. I am making the transition that PR describes here. I still have dreams, moving into visions, visitations, and ascension. If you have a dream that you can’t entirely remember, or have a real time experience where your spiritual eyes are not yet open, you can always go back to the Lord at a later time, and ask Him to show you what you missed, or were unable to see. I have also experienced something where I knew what I was seeing, but not perceiving what I saw. I don’t know how to solve that problem except to be more open and trusting.

    Liked by 1 person

  20. tekoraa says:

    What type of experience was Joseph’s “vision” in the grove. Was it a type two experience? He was cleansed of sin and experienced a pillar of light/fire, yet after the experience he was left lying on his back staring upward. [Joseph had a vision while in the pillar of fire, or as we call the baptism of fire, God’s glory. It was just as he described. But, what he saw and experienced was not in the flesh. He saw with his spiritual eyes in vivid vision. PR]

    Liked by 1 person

  21. M H says:

    PR Quote: “If you can’t remember your dream it was only meant for your spirit; if you remember vividly and it stays with you, it was meant for you now. ”

    On several occasions, I have woke up in the night feeling like I have great light in me and that I just witnessed something miraculous or amazing in what I can only assume was a dream. But the thing is, I can’t remember it. I feel as though I had just had a vision, or some heavenly encounter in the spirit. But, the experience is just barely out of reach of my memory.

    On one occasion, I came out of sleep with the sound that I can only describe as the sound rushing waters.

    Is this what you’re talking about in relation to your above-quote? [Possibly, but there are so many variables. PR]


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